surrounding that process and the particular school that they were trying to get their kids into, and so that became sort of the second storyline in the film. >> let's watch a little bit and then i'll ask more questions. . ..

>> those are not options. it does not mean that they don't want alternatives. thecu6 probler3d>ñ not the pars or the children. the problem is a system that kept at pandemic failure of limit the choices parents have. host: if you are not from new york, harlem, or west chester chester caller. >> many studies have been

done and your zip code determines your destiny and that is exhibited in many ways but especially in terms of educational outcome. if you are from a more affluent suburb like westchester -- i am from harlem -- we have access to a much better public education system than the kids do in harlem. that is what i was interested in. i think that difference is morally wrong and this is a civil rights issue of today and it is not just about race. it is about class. the rest of this is tremendous -- the risk of this is tremendous. if i want to be a doctor or struggling homemaker. in harlem, many of them will not have that choice because that will not have the skills to

graduate high school and get through college. >>eva moskowitz founded this. she runs one of the schools. she runs the harlem success academy and she is a former council member where she chairs the committee. she is quite politically active. when she ran for borough president she decided to open schools for through what she knew is that all kids could succeed. >> as she is a democrat? >> she is. she is one of the early damage -- education reformers. >> we will show you another club which would show a one of the families you filmed. >> [no audio]

>> [unintelligible]

>> ♪ >> she says she just takes care of me. >> when did nadia horn of her hearing. >> i guess about two years old.

>> was that her aunt? >> yes, she is a single mother. i see her a lot. they are in a very challenging circumstance. she is a single deaf mother who adores her daughter and understands that education is the key to her daughter's success. she did the best that she could to try to find her a better school than what was being offered into traditional school system in her district. >> what does she do for a living? >> she does not work right now. she is trying to get your ged. >> that little kid can't sign? >> yes, she can. >> how old is she? >> at the time we were shooting, she was four. >> a much shooting did you have

to -- how much shooting did you have to do with each family? we shot for three months and the idea was to get to know each of the families and their lives and circumstanccs and their dreams in the month leading up to the lottery with the lottery being a common tactic of that which brings all hese different people together. we very the amount of time we spent with them. if you have been in a new york apartment, they are very small. we had a tall cameramen and equipment and we tried to do it in short bursts. >> you said she lived right down the street. you live in harlem? >> i live on 188 straight. >> if you have never been to harlem, where does it start and finish? >> it depends who you ask. there are different neighborhoods and offer

manhattan like sugar hill and that is 145th street and some people consider that parliament some don't. it is basically above central park. >> that is a controversy where some of these people lived. i want to make sure to tell you personally be good, the bed, and the ugly about school decide. we don't have a magic formula. it is about establishing a strong school culture of high expectations. we have a longer school day and school year and we are pretty relentless. what happens if your child -- if you do not show up on time? what would crazy people do who are focused on you getting your kids to school? i do wake up calls. we will wake you up. if you are late consistently, we

will wake up calls. we will have to work three times as hard and we do and we are very successful. our practice exams, 100% of our children as the exam. 100%. there is no school in harlem that has marked a 58% of the children taking a test. this suggests that children are capable of an enormous amount and the problem with education is not the children, it is the grown-ups. we do not use a test at the end goal. our goal for our children is college graduation. >> we feel you can improve the education outcome for children in harlem. we were hearing it was not the same kids and families are troubled and these young people are dealing with so many issues that we cannot expect them to compete with other children growing up.

we thought that while it was going to be hard for our children we could create schools all over america where children still learn despite the fact that they are growing up in these troubled neighborhoods and families. >> when did you learn that even moscowitz was controversy. >> it was during the shoot. i was intentional about avoiding controversy and politics. i did not want to divide the audience. i did not have any particular side that i took. we found that was impossible. what i learned of the process is that it is not really about sides. there are many people looking to create -- it really should be

about what is best for kids. i thought was important to show the controversy in the end because there is the question i had which is why there aren't more schools like this because parents want them and they are successful. unfortunately, the answer you get to that is that it is because some parents don't care or because of poverty or culture. lús!q6ñwhat is interesting abot clip is that the parents in harlem were surprised by the results that the school was getting. these schools are proving is that that is not true. it is not society and it is not a parents lack of interest that is causing the enormous achievement gap between the west chesters of the country and the harlems of the country >> i am from greenwich, conn. originally. >> did you go to high school there?

>> i went to greenwich high school. that is the one public school in town. >> greenwich high school has a reputation, explain. >> it is quite big. it has several thousand kids and growing since i was there. i don't know how big it is now. it is known for being a good public bicycle. i take a little bit of issue with that. there is room for improvement there. this is why i get scared and i hear that 30 minutes away in harlem kids are doing half as good. i think that is terrible. in fact, that is proven and in testing there is an achievement gap. this is not based on income level or test scores or whatever. our students are falling behind.

i think we are number 22 out of 29 countries. this affects everyone. whether you are from greenwich or westport or harlem, this is a serious outcome. >> it is safe to say that greenwich's one of the most -- one of the richest towns in america? >> yes. >> and people there do very well? >> may be in the world and people there are very lucky. >> do they spent a lot of money in greenwich on education? >> on taxes? >> yes, you hear all the time that they spend more money in washington, d.c. per student than anywhere else. >> i think the money is important in some respects i think it is also a red herring because if you break it down per pupil it does not seem to lead to higher or lower outcomes. of course, teachers should be paid more, especially the best

ones. i think there is room for more spending. it is more about the effect of spending. >> who gets the most upset about eva moscowitz? >> we sell many people upset by her. she has a longstanding relationship with randy weinga rten who is head of the united federation of teachers. my understanding is that the union actually ran somebody against her when she ran for borough president. they ended up losing. >> he is now head of the american federation of teachers?

>> yes. >>. some and you talked to. -- here is someone you talked to. >> >> i think the union is a force in new york city as it should be. i think the union is here today and it is not going anywhere and to say you can get rid of it is a mistake. i am a unionist and my husband ran the largest union in new york city and i believe it is important. i believe by collective bargaining you get the best deal for everybody. >> the teachers' union contract is 6000 pages in length. it lays out all the things that teachers cannot do. it prescribes almost every aspect and limits prep time to

50-minutes per day. we think teachers need three prep periods per day to be prepared for that would be a violation of contract. we also think we should be able to work palaver to live with teachers -- collaborative lovely with teachers. we have an open-door policy and we watch teachers teach. that is prohibited in the union contract. it is hard to run a school where everything is pre-determined. what you need to do is you need to constantly refined the school of design and school schedule. if there is a problem today, we can fix it by the end of the day. >> she does what in the york city? >> she was a public advocate in an elected position.

she is retired. >> with the unions talked to you? >> no, unfortunately not. going into it i was very interested in the whole picture. in no way from a partisan perspective. unfortunately, they decline for we tried hard from day one up until we finish. i was determined we would include them in this film and i thought this was important, their vision about education going forward. >> why not? >> they did not give a reason. the reason they gave is that they did not have time. i imagine over the course of the year they probably just decided that was not worthwhile. this is my first film. to be fair, ot many people wanted to do me any favors. it was very challenging to make a documentary and one of the most challenging parts is access.

we worked hard to do it. we gave them many opportunities. >> the traditional line up of democrats and unions don't work. help me on that one. she is a democrat and she does not like many things that the union does. what is in that contract that is so bad? >> there is a lot of things in the contract. it is very restrictive and what is interesting is that it does not even always support teachers which is peculiar. i met a lot of teachers that felt very frustrated. they felt like their hands or really tied. they felt they could not do a good job. there really was not a culture of success in their schools that they believed was possible.

you find that schools like eva's and others are getting thousands of teacher applications from traditional public schools. >> do you have any idea how many charter schools are in the country? >> i could there are about 5000 now. they are trying to grow that number. >> how many of the charter schools are supported by taxpayer money, by local money? >> financing depends by state. in new york, it is 75%. they get 75 cents on the dollar and they have to fund raise for the final 25 cents. >> are they considered public schools? >> yes, they are open enrollment by law. that is where the lottery comes from. if more parents enter their children, they are required by law. >>the ufta website has a charter

schools that are unionized. >> there are a few in the city. >> why don't they have to be unionized? >> that is part of the charter law is that they are not required. in the public-school system, as soon as you are signed up, you become part of the union. in charter schools, people can of voted to unionize but by and large they choose not to. >> what year did you get out of greenwich high school? >> 2001. >> what year did you get out of duke? >> 2005. >> is this your first documentary? >> i worked as an editor since i graduated. i was working freelance. i was working on different types of projects, but my last few were documentary's. >> what did you study had do it?

>> i studied by 0-psychology. --bio-psychology? . >> what got you interested in film? >> i thought i could find a job when i was working in the sciences. but i learned to edit for a friends felt my last year for fun. instead of going back to school, i decided i wanted to work for a little while. i have been doing it cents. >> the kids and the school, the little boys had ties on. do they all wear ties in charter schools? >> it is hard to make generalizations because part of what is exciting about charter schools is that they can do whatever they want. many of them choose to have uniforms. the schools in the film all do. they are not required to do

that. >> the little kids had ties on but the teachers do not. >> i don't go to lawyers because they break my heart. a child's estiny should not be determined by the drop. >> the lottery is a -- prescribed by law if demand outpaces supply, you have to do a lottery. >you do not have to do republic lottery but we do that to show that there are thousands and thousands of parents who are interested in a phenomenal education for their child them a daddy ! >> erica is in two other lotteries. i would be happy if he gets sent. >> c-span.org [unintelligible]

>> is not possible for every child but i hope we are picked them u. >> [unintelligible] >> how many people apply to the lottery and alan slots are there? >> that year there was about 3400 applicants and 475 spots. does about 15% chance. >> here is a democrat from newark, corey booker. who changes somebody from being a democrat for being for public schools or charter schools?

>> the mayor has been a champion of education reform for a long time. they are featured in film. they have been working tirelessly for this for many, many years, longer than most people have known that this is a problem. what is at the heart of it is probably what attracted me to this issue which is this sense of injustice and that it does not have to be that way. you visit these schools that are working and they can be traditional public schools or charter schools or private schools. it does not matter but when they are working, you can feel it. the kids are happy, the teachers are happy, they are learning, you get this sense late they are moving toward something great which is college. many people like mayor booker believe it is possible for

things to get better. >> what is driving you in this? being a documentarian or interested in issues? documentaries are often issue- driven or they have a point of view. >> i was interested in the story. i wanted to get to know some families and their kids and to tell their side of the story. you hear these terrible statistics all the time and the outcomes which are often incarceration or being on welfare, serious, serious risks. that is not part of it. the part is that these are real kids and you see these kids in the film and they are like any other kids. someone accused me of picking the cutest kid to which it thought was funny. i think everything that is two- feet tall is queued.

cute. the store was interesting but i became attached in trying to help. >> we saw three new parents there. how did you find them? >> i met him at information sessions that the school holds. it is essentially an open house and parents come to check it out. one of the myths that i encountered is that perez de -- that these parents care more. some of the parents were there by accident. they do an aggressive marketing campaign because they do not just want parents that do not care. they believe that all kids deserve the chance. you meet many parents who are

essentially there by accident. >> here is eva moscowitz again. >> the unions are playing to win. they do not want to meet the face of the opposition and do not want to look at it as a white-dominated organization and it is obvious that they are protecting the interests of their members and so forth, what they will often do is hire an outside group like acorn which is a community-based organization and they will bus in protesters who will protest charter schools or a particular school and make a number of arguments about charter schools. they will say that we only succeed because they have small class sizes even though we have kindergarten sizes up to 29 kids or they will say charter schools

do not educate special ed kids. they will save a charter schools goes into a building, the class size will trouble even though the schools in harlem are incredibly under-enrolled. if you talk to charter operators in any city and state you will find that the opposition comes from unions and from democratic local officials. >> why don't the unions want charter schools? >> i think it is a turf war going on. the public education system has existed of the way it does now since after world war one, basically. that is a lot of time. the union has said a monopoly over it. if you become a teacher in the traditional public school system in new york city, you're

automatically enrolled in the union. that is a secure position to have. they are a business. their job is to protect teachers' and charter schools are not required to unionize. but opposes a threat. >> where did this acorn group come from and what is the status of the and the country today. >> they have since dissolved, ostensibly. they have restructured itself as different organizations. i think of their name barry's by state. at the time, there -- i think their name varies by state. that was the first sort of political controversy that we encountered. we drove by the protest and became curious about what was going on and it turned out they were in fact protesting the

school but the families we featured want to get their children into it. >> would they talk to you? >> no, they would not. they said they were not allowed and we need to talk to parents that were there. i only identified two or so parents from the school who did talk. >> that was taped when? >> that demonstration was filmed in the spring, i think of 2009. we film from the february-may so it was before the lottery. >> here is more of the demonstrators. >> i am not against charter schools, but the way they use the charter schools in this neighborhood, i am against that. it is another tool for justification. >> they went about it wrong.

>> we have our president. [unintelligible] [chanting] >> this issue is not just about this school. let's be clear. this is about every school in this community. i am so glad that we're joined by acorn. [applause] come over here for a minute, young men. this was for you. what is your name? marshall scott? let me hear you say the people united will never be defeated.

>> people united will never be defeated. [applause] >> we have our marching orders. >> people united will never be defeated -- how are they being defeated if they are charter schools? >> that is an acorn chance. you will hear them saying that. i don't know how specific it really was. you get this sense in the community and that seemed was ramping up to unemotional and aggressive meeting. it was a town hall-type meeting between the harlem success academy parents who need

additional space in order to accept the clauses of kids and parents from the community as well as parents that the union is bussing in to argue against this decision. there is a sense of that these charter schools are coming from outside and taking over the community and that is gentrification, like the gentleman said earlier which are intentionally propagated by the union. >> you mentioned that half a million dollars was spent by the united federation of teachers to bring in a corner. what did the documentary cost to and how did you get the money? >> the film cost less than that. the funding was from all over. i had some very generous donors early on this enabled me to begin filming them are the

donors that knew which your point of view was? >>poçm they were not really interested. they'reaãinterested in making a film. they trusted me with that. i then used the film we did early on to raise money from foundations. i applied for grants from foundations from everything from poverty to education and entertainment and so on. >> you which showed in the film? >> i showed them early short pieces so they got a sense of the production quality. >> if you were not headed in the direction of supporting the idea of choice, would they have funded you? >> it depends on the funders, probably. they really had no say over the final product. as far as they were concerned, it could of ended up the way. craig did eva moscovitz help

fund this? >> know, in no way. >> here she is at a public space. gori before we do that, public space, they alluded to in the last clip, charter schools are located inside another school? >> yes, it is called co- locating. they break down large schools to be many small schools in the same building and this is like that. you can have a public charter school on one floor and above that a different traditional public school. >> deceiving the issue is the location of the harlem success academy.

i will give the microphone over. >> we started our first call august, 2006 because we believe deeply in what children can accomplish. we obviously need a space for our schools. that is why we are here. thank you very much. [applause] >> i am the pta president of 194. i am also a parent. [applause] if you mean well then you would not come into our community and try to divide its neighbors. ps 194 is here and we will not, i repeat, we will not give up this fight. build your own building. [applause] let me say to eva marklowitz --

folks in harlem will not lead to get away without respecting us. >> [unintelligible] we are not saying that kids can come here. we are saying to work together. [applause] >> how much attention was in the room? >> a very high, there was actually police there. on occasion have to calm people down. >> how would you be dividing the community? >> that was a school that was at risk of being closed for poor

for performance. they had like 30% of kids at grade level. it is hard to imagine that every year and that means for the past many years another few hundred kids will go to that schoolww-9d you know that 70% of them will not be at grade level. the chancellor was planning on closing the school and that is why you got such anger. >> here is more from that particular meeting. >> i have a problem with 21 charter schools coming up into harlem. i said 21. i am so tiredgy?eñ of people disrespecting me and my children and my school. mr. white, you can go back and

tell your people that this -- no one will run here through here like storming norman. you are not welcome here. we will fight. i will fight until my dying day. [unintelligible] [applause] >> did it happen? >> did they get access? >> no, they didn't. >> to determine that? >> what ended up happening is that the ufta filed a lawsuit about the school closing and won so the space did not become available. >> this is up in harlem above

110th street. if you were from 36 third street, could you go to a charter school? >> you could enter the lottery their preference was district preference. they also included children coming from failing schools. they tried to keep families together and serve the community. all of this was dictated by lot >> did you change your mind about any of this? >> i think going into it my commitment to all sides was very strong. it is difficult to be so frustrated and closed out from either of the two sides for each -- for one year.

my allegiance to the kids has become stronger. i do not think that the union always has the kids'' best interests at heart. >> here is another interview. >> we are going straight on the line, ok? cooperate. >> [unintelligible] >> do what i say. dgregory, let's go >> my name s gregory alexander goodwine.ame s (56o>> go over there. >> i am lookings:ipeaf to wheret began, 1983, right after i turned 16-years old.

my ffiends went in to take stuff. show their new kñ they went from stealing to drugs. r+ñçhzñeq3ñ took me so long to realize

jñ made were the wrong things. i(#úañi don't regret it and the@ have something6fw6 and someonet -- do not think like i thought. >> where is he? in prison? >> he is in upstate new york. >> u.n. up there with him and the family? >> we did. >> they let you in and what were the roles? >> we had to go through their office. we had to go through the proper pathways. >> what impact did that particular session have on you? >> that was a difficult day and a long interview, about 2.5 hours.

i had never been to a maximum security prison before. we had not met before, but i knew his whole family. it was very emotional. >> is he married? >> how many children do they have? >> just one, gregory. >> most of the kids were going into kindergarten or first grade. >> how long does the charter school go? >> this is news so they have their first class of fifth graders this year. it began in kindergarten and grows every year after that. it will go through 8th grade. >> how close is the test -- a statistic, 1.1 million students k-12 and 50,000 in charter schools in new york city? >> that sounds about right. there are 200 charter schools.

>> this is a confrontation of the city council. we will watch this. did you evvr see eva moscowitz blue circle? >> no, she has been doing this a long time. she chairs the committee and she testifies in the film that many stories say she wants to run for mayor. >> that is what i hear. >> let's watch this. >> let me turn to my colleague of the bronx. >> thank you. you in your testimony said that council member jackson, we both live in harlem. for the record, do you live in harlem? >> i grew up in harlem and i live in harlem.

>> you live in harlem currently? >> i do. >> can you share with us your street? >> i have three young children so i would prefer not to. are you questioning that i am telling the truth? >> yes. [laughter] >> i will go on to the next question. >> i am happy to take questions as to where i live. >> one second. i know for a fact that eva lives in harlem. i represent harlem but i live in washington heights. >> your statement about the school's deserving to be shut down -- i think you represent for me the one thing that i have a great deal of concern about charter schools. you come in here and say they deserve to be closed down and

we, those of us who remain in his body, have to navigate the conflict that comes out of the arrogance that comes when you make a statement like that. >> i appreciate and if i have come off as arrogant and i apologize but i would like an opportunity to explain what i think you are mistaken. i do not think it is arrogance. i think is my own personal experience with district five schools. i went to them as a child. i had to figure out what to do as a mother. it is my experience of the pain of and wanting your kids to get a phenomenal education and being told that it is the zone school or nothing. you better like it or you are done. i think that is an experience as

a parent that is just awful. you bring these kids into the world and it is your obligation to do right by them. >> how much education did she have? >> i believe she got her ph.d. in history at vendor built where she taught. >> she taught college for a while. does she really live in harlem? ,csç>> . >> and she was raised in harlem? >> yes. >> almost everybody you say in these clubs are african- american. in harlem and what was yourlive- family doing living there? >> she grew up in harlem and went to district five schools. when she came home every night, her parents would tutor her. she noticed her class by its falling farther behind.

i think that inequity fuel the her now. >> how much does money have to do with this? i saw a story that says moscowitz makes no secret of wanting to make 40 charter schools and see a breakdown high salaries in 2006 and 2007 from organizations connected to her four schools. was the audience aware of the money she is making? >> yes, it is a republic. their finances are totally (it is really no secret. high performing charter schools, charter operators, are making pretty good salaries. those organizations feel it is a worthwhile use of money to have

an effective leader them how much are they resenting this in these meetings? >> how much are these city council people getting money from the union? >> it is not about the salary which a bank is confusing. everybody wants teachers to get paid more. that is a philosophy that the charter schools respect which is that if we want great talent we have to pay for it. the union spends the most dollars in albany than anyone else. you have to imagine that a fair number of city council members are tied financially to union donations. >> how long is the documentary? >> it is 80 minutes. >> is available on the web? >> it is in theaters right now.

we are in washington, d.c. this week and then we are opening in denver. we are also in palm springs, new york and los angeles and it will be available on dvd starting in august. >> how much will it sell for? >> i don't know. that is a good question. i should find out. >> on many people worked on this with you? >> i don't know the total number of people. we had a small crew, about seven people shooting the film we have a pretty small team. >> did you edit this yourself? >> yes, i did. i don't always recommend that but i did not have -- that budget reflects me doing a lot of things. >> we want to go to another club. here is eva moscowitz talking about kids being educated no matter their circumstances. >> we do our best to support

these kids for the main thing we do is educate the children no matter what the circumstances. they need to learn to read and write. we need to provide more to schools and make focus for the child. can children be distracted? absolutely. we cannot change the hands that the child was dealt or that we have been dealt that schools. get that job and get emotionally attached. it is our job to educate that case no matter what. >> [unintelligible] >> mama. \ [unintelligible] >> we will put that on --

>> barack oh, has those shiny shoes. >> he does? you have seen them? >> yes i have. >> what are you doing? are you going to work? >> i am barack obama. >> why do you think that? you look a little bit like him in that suit. >> i feel a lot like him. >> ok. >> that is a side bar but what do you see is the connection between this young fellow and barack obama? >> obama's presence in the film and in harlem is understated until that moment. it is very important. he is a really important person for these kids.

they see his picture in the classroom. the parents of his calendar is in their apartment. greg jr. would dress up as him sometimes and go to school and around the apartment. >> what is barack obama's position on charter schools? >> he is pro-school choice. this is an historic stand on the need for more options for parents and that includes charter schools. he is very positive in that regard. >> at the end of this and we will not show it, what is the procedure? what is the procedure about finding out whether you are chosen? >> the parents are required to go. it is a random computerized process.

they asked that the parents ago in order to show their support. they say to the parents of the information sent -- session that we sent letters home public think it is important for them to be there to prove to people that you want something better because your voice is important. in 2008, i would have had no idea this was happening. >> here is one minute of the video near the end. this is not determine the winner but this is near the and. >> [unintelligible] >> they are calling your name.

[unintelligible] >> [unintelligible] >> calling names [calling names] thank you very much and congratulations and for those of you waiting, there is one more school to come so keep your hopes alive. >> what happens if you do not win? >> it depends on the family. most of these families do not have the money to send their kids to private school or to move to a higher performing districts. many of them are forced to send

their kids to the district schools. some of them -- want the families applied to like 20 charter schools. they are placing their bets which i should not have to do. >> what is the hardest part of a documentary like this? >> i think the whole thing it's hard. there is a pretty serious responsibility that i had not had before which is to tell someone else's story. i did not show any of the families the film until it was completely finished. they are the only ones that i care about. we showed some very difficult moments in their lives and relationships. they all liked the film. it is weird to watch yourself and your family on a big screen.

they all responded very positively and came to the big screen at the apollo theater a few weeks ago. i was really happy about that. >> you are a duke graduate, grew up in greenwich, conn. and you live in new york city. my guest is about 27 years old. >> i am. >> we are out of time. "the lottery" is the name of the documentary. !u♪ ♪

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] "road to the white hous coming coming up next, "washington journal." we will then have house majority leader steny hoyer @ @ help -- 10:30, the house returns for more debate. live coverage is here on c-span. >> next, a look ahead at the confirmation hearings for supreme court elena kagan. our guest is from "the washington journal." than the former deputy national security adviser for counter terrorism will stop